"Well," Polemarchus said, "do you see how many of us there are?"  Socrates responded, "Of course."  "Well, then," he said, "either prove stronger than these men or stay here."  "Isn't there still one other possibility. . . .," Socrates said, "our persuading you that you must let us go?"  "Could you really persuade," he said, "if we don't listen?"  "There's no way," said Glaucon.  "Well, then, think it over, bearing in mind we won't listen."

                                               Plato's Republic  (327c)